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CK2 - Dev Diary #123 - Iron Century

Hello!

As you probably know by now we released our 3.1.1 patch yesterday. Hopefully those of you who have managed to try it are enjoying it, and those of you who haven’t will jump in this weekend. Let us know what you think about the court and tech changes, and as always if you run into any issues, please report them in the bug forum!

Now onto something new, there have been a few hints here and there about what we have been working on. However now we can officially announce that we will be releasing a new historical bookmark called: The Iron Century. The bookmark will start on the 7th of August 936, a previously unplayable date and our first in the 10th century.

CK2_IronCentury_1920x1080.jpg


In Europe Otto marches on the path to an Empire, Rival Caliphs battle for control of the Muslim world and the last remnants of the vikings stir to the north. Hundreds of other characters have their own stories to tell. A thousand possibilities await in the Iron Century.

Next week we will do something special and have a new dev diary about the 936 bookmark every day from Monday to Friday to cover the setting of the medieval world in the 10th century. Also I want to make it clear that ‘The Iron Century’ update will be completely free.

A correction from last weeks dev diary is that the correct weekday of our Crusader Kings stream is Wednesdays 16:00 CEST and not the previously mentioned Thursdays.

Thanks for reading everyone!

CK2 Team
 
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Will this mod enchance the HRE?

I kind of hope so. I really like how the HRE has a unique succession type, but the reality is that having such a restrictive succession law makes it inferior to other created Empires, like Russia or Scandinavia or Hispania, etc. There is no upside to being the HRE compared to any other Empire (other than the sweet crown). I feel like that there is something small missing atm to really make the HRE more distinctive. This bookmark would be a great opportunity for something to be added.
 
It will be very interesting to see how you managed India. Some places are really obscure. Obviously, you don't need to deal with the fall of the Pratiharas so it gets a bit easier but it's still a tedious task.

I wonder what detail went into Hungarian tribes. Ideally, the vassals of the Arpads would be from the tribes that came with them into Hungary.

Oh, and the Liao in the northeast. It's not quite sure where their border stopped in the 10th century and when they entered the picture CK2-wise.

One thing that is a bit worrying is the large shift of territory among the tribal pagans. It makes modding in the timeline between 867 and 1066 more difficult since there is no great consistency and probably no explanations either. The idea would be that 867 should morph into 1066 slowly (unless the cause is explained) but the set up is almost night and day.
 
Not the best picture, but here you can sort of see what it'd look like if you just opened 936 in 3.1.1 vs 3.2. If I recall correctly, there was around 2000 errors on launch (see missing rulers, etc) when I first started working on it.

View attachment 481822
Well the Nile only took six years to make its way into that game. Does it go all the way down or stop around the first cataracts? Also, any plan on adding the Tigris-Euphrates?
 
Not the best picture, but here you can sort of see what it'd look like if you just opened 936 in 3.1.1 vs 3.2. If I recall correctly, there was around 2000 errors on launch (see missing rulers, etc) when I first started working on it.

View attachment 481822
Well the Nile only took six years to make its way into that game. Does it go all the way down or stop around the first cataracts? Also, any plan on adding the Tigris-Euphrates?
 
Oh, and the Liao in the northeast. It's not quite sure where their border stopped in the 10th century and when they entered the picture CK2-wise.

Given the CK2 map includes parts of Mongolia, those would probably be ruled by the Liao/Khitan.

Bigger point of interest for me is how they'll portray the Chinese dynasties. In 936, China is divided into several states in the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, and the Dynasty in power, the Later Tang, would literally be overthrown the next year by another short-lived dynasty, the Later Jin (not to be confused with the Jin Dynasty founded by the Jurchens a couple centuries later). I guess they could have the Later Tang as the current dynasty in a massive civil war / nomad invasion or something.
 
Given the CK2 map includes parts of Mongolia, those would probably be ruled by the Liao/Khitan.

Bigger point of interest for me is how they'll portray the Chinese dynasties. In 936, China is divided into several states in the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, and the Dynasty in power, the Later Tang, would literally be overthrown the next year by another short-lived dynasty, the Later Jin (not to be confused with the Jin Dynasty founded by the Jurchens a couple centuries later). I guess they could have the Later Tang as the current dynasty in a massive civil war / nomad invasion or something.

The easiest method would be to actually add China on the map. But I doubt that's going to happen.
They could also make it so that the Chinese emperor seat is vacant until an empire title is formed. Of course this would happen off-map with game settings such as historical, early and delayed where the player himself can choose, very much the same as how he deals with the Seljuk and the Mongols.
 
Ok, that's sweet, but one thing.
Maybe balance the other dates before going into a whole new territory.
  • Norway still wins the Norman conquest 9 times out of 10
  • The abbasid sitll blobs too much from being stable (y'know what, lets just change this statement. ALL caliphates, sultanates, and large islamic territories blob too much from being too stable)
  • Even after the crusades, Iberia still ends up muslim if it's not totally shattered (and even if it is shattered, the kingdoms still tear themselves apart until muslims pick at the remains).
  • The HRE is too stable and keeps taking hungary
  • Karl couldn't form the HRE to save his life 99 times out of 100
  • Speaking of the HRE, the the mess that is central europe in the old gods start still can't keep itself even remotely stable, and ignores when there's literally any outside force threatening them until france is muslim and Germany looks like the the german states post HRE collapse, just a few centuries early
  • Ghengis khan can't expand for shit because he keeps doing it one war at a time
  • Crusader states can't survive because jihads are still half cooked
  • I get that there's supposed to be instability in the ERE, but they literally cannot defend themselves for the life of them. If it's a start date where Rum is at its peak, more often than not it ends up steam rolling the ERE
  • Slavs in charlemenge... Really, christianity as a whole in charlemenge. It just doesn't survive, ever.
  • Also, Orthodoxy can't really spread north in any way. One of the most important parts of rus culture is just kinda out the window on that part
  • Speaking of, thanks to Rus never being able to organize itself, the North never really gets conquered.
  • ALSO speaking of rus, pretty much 3/4ths of the kingdoms tend to be under some sort of nomadic control, and they never even try to get out.
  • And Khazaria... just... just look at some of the damn memes. It's funny the first few times, but seriously, that just shows how half baked nomads' balance is.
These are just a few of the most major problems with all the start dates. I appreciate new content, and I think the vast majority can agree, but there's a point where someone has to look at the state of the game and consider if it's time for throwing more food on the plate or time to clean some of that food off the plate. It's not like more content can't be added while fixing this stuff. I mean, Islam is basically feudalism but more broken, and really shows its age as the first expansion because of it. That's an example of something to overhaul as 'new content'.
At least put some weight into the AI's decisions for outside dangers. Like, if Iberia DOES become muslim, maybe have the Karling kingdoms stop the infighting and look to suit up against the behemoth on their doorstep.
Again, I'm liking the approach into the 10th century, but PLEASE tell me there's a lot more back-end stuff working on all of the ahistorical flaws that are from poor balancing and half-finished mechanics?
Are we really playing the same game? Half of the claims don't seem to be true in my games at all, and others, like Norman Conquest, are logical (what happened in reality is NOT necessarily the most likely way to go).
 
I’m 110% excited about a new date, but...


...were you deliberately trying to make weapons in the picture that anachronistic?
Sword in the hand of the bearded guy in the center (Otto der Große, I suppose?) has a typical hilt of a longsword - weapon, that wasn't invented until 1100-1200, and didn't came into prominence until 1300.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword)

And the pole-arm in the hands of man right in front of him is undeniably the halberd right from 1400s
(This picture shows his especially nice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_weapon#/media/File:Polearms.jpg )
It literally wouldn’t be more anachronistic if he had a firearm instead;)
 
The easiest method would be to actually add China on the map.

Speaking as someone that's been doing that (or, well, I redid the non-vanilla province layout post-HF and also have done a bunch of compatibility stuff) as part of a mod, that would be anything but easy (though, admittedly, the devs might be a lot better at map stuff and PDS presumably would have more resources to throw at the problem if they decided to do it).


First off, you're expanding the map in at least one direction. Are you also adding pixels to the south? If so, you're going to have to update half of the existing position entries since those are calculated from the bottom left corner of the map. You can do that with a script (if you can create that script), but already you're changing other stuff because you wanted China on the map, and it won't be the last time you've got to change old stuff. Also, since you're expanding the map, are you aiming for just China, or are you adding other parts of the Far East that would be relevant for China (or other realms in the east), e.g. Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia, and Indonesia? I don't think there's a good map projection that'd give you only China, though I suppose you could have wastelands covering e.g. Burma (because apparently you don't care about what happened there; I can already see a bunch of "Paradox hates [country]" threads spring up), which naturally would lead to requests to fill in those in the future (or to expand the map further, if you e.g. stopped before Japan).

After deciding on the map size, you'll have to create a new height map, create a new river map, create a new terrain map, and create a new tree map (which has really weird proportions compared to the other map files (devs, why is it scaled 1:8.04188481675 (in one direction; I don't remember the other and it isn't on the wiki) instead of 1:8?) and thus easily will mess up pre-existing trees). I don't have experience with any of those (since someone else did that work), but since there's no other PDS game it can be directly imported from (since EU4 (and other games) has a different map projection and you thus can't just copy-paste it) it probably isn't trivial.

At this point (and just filling in the extended provinces.bmp with white to ensure that the game will launch), you've got an expanded terrain map with a wasteland (or, technically, an inaccessible sea) outside the boundaries of the current map. That's obviously not what you're after, so you need to add a good number (read: hundreds) of provinces. That means researching the area to find out a sensible layout. I suppose the devs might make use of EU4's layout/research done by the EU4 team to some extent, but that's going to result in rather few provinces compared to what the rest of the map has, so you'll have to do research to expand on that.

With an idea for a layout, you'll have to draw the provinces on the map, one by one, each in a different colour (which thankfully already exist; it would take even longer if you needed to make sure that there were no conflicts with previous colours), which likely will take several iterations since you'll want to check how it looks in the game. You'll also need to add localization for every province to avoid having e.g. "PROV2110" instead of "Chang'an".

Once you've done that, you've broken your huge wasteland into several smaller wastelands. Now you'll need to start making the relevant provinces into playable counties, which means creating the de jure structure from scratch, with seven baronies per county (because of Prosperity), creating a province history file for every county to set up the initial culture/religion/development setup (which requires research and presumably will require defining a bunch of new cultures/religions at a basic level), adding CoAs for every new title (which requires research and the involvement of people that actually can do graphical stuff (which I doubt all the PDS content designers can do; I've seen some temporary art in some steams)), adding positions for every new title, and probably a few more small bits I've forgotten, and that's before you consider the fact that you also will need to add (ideally historical) rulers for everything, that you'll probably need a bunch of adjacencies (strait crossings, etc.), some new geographical regions, a bunch of tech history, and that you've got to make sure that it all is in decent shape for the three early start dates (CM, tOG, IC) and every date between 1066.9.15 and 1337.1.1.


At this point, you've probably got a working map and decent history files (if you managed to find good rulers). If you think you're done, you're mistaken. Pretty much everything having to do with offmap China will be broken (since offmap titles can't be on the map), so you're going to have to redo that in a fashion that works with China on the map (and some of it might not be possible to have with China on the map) and that works well with the player possibly being the target (since China being on the map but unplayable would be rather unsatisfactory), the Black Death's spread patterns (and origin) will need to be updated, the Silk Road will have to be expanded, the new cultures/religions will need some features, and you'll probably need/want to do a bunch of other things to make the new area fun to play in (particularly since Taoists have rather little at present).

Oh, and even after you do all of the above (hopefully without sacrificing a lot of performance, since that would be a deal-breaker for many), there will still be people complaining because they never head east of the Levant and they think that anything unrelated to crusading or (Christian) kings is beyond the scope of the game (despite the devs having said that the name isn't meant to be taken as "The only thing we're doing in the game"), or they think that whatever has been added is unreasonably inaccurate (since there doubtlessly will have been concessions to making things playable, enjoyable, and understandable), or they've got some other reason to complain (justifiably or not).


Sure, having China (and other parts of the Far East) on the map would be interesting (at least as far as I'm concerned; as mentioned above, it won't be to everyone's liking), but adding it is far more complicated than a bunch of other options that would handle the offmap title issue in IC (e.g. giving it to later Tang (or Later Jin, since they were about to take over) and having it in a state civil war).
 
A sagittis hungarorum libera nos, Domine :D:D
 
I’m 110% excited about a new date, but...


...were you deliberately trying to make weapons in the picture that anachronistic?
Sword in the hand of the bearded guy in the center (Otto der Große, I suppose?) has a typical hilt of a longsword - weapon, that wasn't invented until 1100-1200, and didn't came into prominence until 1300.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword)

And the pole-arm in the hands of man right in front of him is undeniably the halberd right from 1400s
(This picture shows his especially nice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_weapon#/media/File:Polearms.jpg )
It literally wouldn’t be more anachronistic if he had a firearm instead;)

I fixed it!
fixed_it.jpg