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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #112 - Political Lobbies

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary! Today’s topic will be Political Lobbies, which is a new feature added in the Sphere of Influence expansion with some elements made available for free in the 1.7 update.

So, what is a Political Lobby? Put simply, a Political Lobby is a collection of Interest Groups pushing for the implementation of a specific foreign policy agenda in their country. Superficially, this may appear quite similar to Political Parties, but there a couple key differences in how they function:
  • Political Lobbies always form for a specific reason, often due to a Diplomatic Catalyst (more on those and the precise conditions for how they can create lobbies in next week’s dev diary) and pursue a specific long-term agenda that does not change over time
  • Interest Groups can be members of multiple Lobbies, so long as those Lobbies do not have directly contradictory goals

The agenda of a Political Lobby is always in relation to a specific foreign power, and there are four types of Political Lobbies being added in 1.7/Sphere of Influence:
  • Pro-Country Lobby: This Political Lobby seeks to promote and advance the interests of their target country, both in relation to their home country and in a more global sense
  • Anti-Country Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Country Lobby, this Lobby seeks to hinder the interests of their target country and ‘take it down a peg’ whenever possible
  • Pro-Overlord Lobby: A Pro-Overlord Lobby can only form in a subject country, and will always target the overlord. It seeks to promote loyalty towards and closer integration with the overlord.
  • Anti-Overlord Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Overlord lobby, this lobby is also only for subject countries and wants to become less dependent on the overlord, and ideally secure independence for their home country if the opportunity arises.

Interest Groups can join Political Lobbies for a variety of reasons, such as ideological alignment with or opposition to the country they target, or in pursuit of an overarching goal, such as the Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital.

Lobbies have an Appeasement score, which goes up when you take actions that the Lobby feels aligns with their goals, and goes down when you take actions that they consider to be contrary to those goals. Appeasement acts as a modifier on the Approval of their constituent Interest Groups, which means that your foreign policy actions can now directly help or hinder your internal political goals.

For example, are those staunchly Anti-French Landowners doing the Landowner thing of blocking those voting rights you want enacted? Simple! Just declare your opposition to France in a Diplomatic Play and humiliate them, and the Landowners will be so busy celebrating their victory over the perfidious Gallics that they will graciously let you have this one little reform.

On the flipside, you might find that the very pro-British Industrialists are not at all pleased with your continued alliance to a British rival, and that your previous plan of working to strengthen them in order to enact Laissez-Faire has now backfired, as they refuse to work with you until you break said alliance, forcing you to choose which of your two goals is more important to you.

Anti-American sentiment is strong among the Armed Forces and Trade Unions of Mexico, and both have been appeased by declaring an embargo on American trade, though of course the Americans aren’t likely to be too pleased with this action…
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Lobbies, of course, do not only affect Interest Group approval but have direct diplomatic benefits or drawbacks depending, once again, on whether the actions you take align with their goals. How large these effects are depends on the combined Clout of the Interest Groups that are part of the Lobby.

For example, having a Pro-Country Lobby will make it easier to conduct diplomacy with that country, both by increasing their AI acceptance for proposals and by lowering the Influence cost of any friendly pacts you maintain with them, but increasing the cost of hostile actions (such as Embargos) and lowering the Influence you gain from rivaling them. As you might expect, Anti-Country Lobbies have the opposite effect, making friendly diplomacy harder and hostile actions cheaper. Anti and Pro-Overlord Lobbies also significantly influence Liberty Desire, as mentioned in the previous dev diary.

Lobbies also have a secondary effect on AI behavior, as an AI country with a Pro-Country lobby will be more likely to adopt a friendly attitude towards the target of said lobby, with the opposite effects for an Anti-Country Lobby, with the Clout of said lobbies once again determining how likely the AI is to fall in line with them. All of these effects, as well as the actual creation of Lobbies themselves, will be available to everyone as part of the free 1.7 update.

Although Russia’s government currently has a positive attitude towards Austria and wishes to pursue closer relations, the powerful Anti-Austrian Lobby in Russia makes it more difficult for them to agree to any proposed new Diplomatic Pacts
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For those with the Sphere of Influence expansion, Lobbies can also make their will known through an opportunity or a demand. Opportunities generally come in the form of some diplomatic groundwork done by the Lobby that may allow their parent country to sign a diplomatic pact that is otherwise difficult to get, or even out of reach entirely. For Pro-Country Lobbies this usually involves dealing with the target country directly, while Anti-Country Lobbies will instead work to create opportunities to cooperate with the target’s enemies and rivals. Opportunities can be declined without any penalty, and will only result in a loss of Appeasement if accepted but not followed through on. Accepting and following through on the Opportunity will of course increase their Appeasement.

Even though Great Britain is Cautious about France and thus not willing to sign a Trade Agreement under normal circumstances, the acceptance bonus granted by the opportunity created by the Pro-British Lobby should be enough to secure the deal
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Demands, conversely, is when a Lobby believes that the government isn’t doing enough to pursue their agenda and well, demands action. A demand generally comes in the form of a specific action that the Lobby wishes to see taken either against the target country, or against a country relevant to them (for example, a rival or ally). A demand can be declined, but doing so will significantly decrease the Appeasement of the Lobby (though not as much as accepting the demand and then failing to follow through on it).

Feeling that the French government isn’t doing enough to foster closer ties with Britain, the pro-British Lobby demands a grand gesture of enmity with Britain’s Russian enemy
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Also available for those with the Sphere of Influence expansion is the new Fund Lobbies diplomatic action. This action works in a fairly similar way to Bankroll, in that it transfers money from the treasury of the initiating country, but instead of the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead, with who gets what share of the money dependent on the target’s political setup and how much power sharing is going on - when trying to Fund Lobbies in an Autocratic country, nobody is going to bother spreading money around to poor laborers who have no say in politics whatsoever.

The precise effects of Fund Lobbies depends on whether a Pro-Country/Pro-Overlord lobby targeting the initiator already exists in the target country. If one does not exist, the money goes towards promoting the creation of such a lobby, with a weekly chance for this to happen. If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.

Seeking to tighten its grip over their junior Personal Union partner, Sweden begins to spread some money around among the politically influential Norwegian Pops
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Finally, I want to wrap up this dev diary by talking a little bit about the moddability and extensibility of the Lobbies system. Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in. The entire system of forming, appeasing and applying mechanical effects from lobbies is completely moddable, and we definitely intend to use this system to create new and interesting types of lobbies in future updates!

That’s all for today! Since this one ended up pretty long, and we actually have a bunch of semi-related things to go over as well, we’ve decided to change the Dev Diary schedule so that next week’s dev diary will be about Diplomatic Catalysts and the Diplomatic AI. We also still want to talk more about Power Blocs, and will find a way to fit that in before release. See you then!
 
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This comment is reserved for developer comments!

Is there any way to encourage or coerce IGs to join or leave lobbies? It'd be nice to be able to spend some political goodwill or use authority to avoid having your entire foreign policy dictated by which IGs decided to join which lobbies.

Also, are Political Agitators relevant? Will inviting a German communist fleeing the Kaiser as the Soviet Union make it more likely an anti-German lobby will appear?
There is no direct mechanical interaction with lobbies at this time, like with supporting or bolstering Interest Groups. There are events associated with Lobbies where you'll be given some options for tradeoffs along the lines you mention, though.

Agitators don't play into formation of lobbies right now, but that's a very cool idea that might not be too difficult to implement. I'll see what we can do!

Because the scedule for DDs has been changed, does that mean that we will be getting a few giga DDs or that some topics won‘t get any coverage at all?
We are looking at what we can do, but we would like to cover as many topics as possible.

Are domestic or neutral lobbies planned to be added in vanilla in future updates, or do you expect this to be a solely mod-oriented feature?
We've built the feature to support this and will undoubtedly do something with it in the future ourselves, but there are no concrete plans right now.

How is it determined what IG joins a given lobby? Is it based on the countries politics/ecconomy? As in, is a Communist country more likely to have foreign Trade Unions support them via a lobby, while a capitalist industrial powerhouse is more appealing to industrialists? Do IG leaders influence it?
As with a lot of things in Victoria 3, a bazillion factors :p There are some basic things, like government and ideological similarity / differences, and some more specific things, like penalties to join pro-Lobbies for nations with dissimilar cultures (and bonuses, for anti-Lobbies) if the Interest Group or its leader has fascist or ethnonationalist ideologies, if the country discriminates against pops of the religion the Devout Interest Group follows, Republican or Communist cross-border solidarity, etc.

Will there be anti war lobby and pro jingoist lobby ?
In Update 1.7, all lobbies will be directed towards a specific country, not a general diplomatic stance. So a pro-France lobby would be upset if you went to war with France specifically, while an anti-France lobby would be pleased if you did. Lobbies that favor specific issues rather than countries is not an impossibility in the future, but for Update 1.7 and Sphere of Influence we wanted to focus on creating more dynamic interactions between countries specifically.

How do Lobbies work with ideologies such as Isolationism or Free Trade? Pacifism and Jingoism (as previous poster asked)?

How do Lobbies work with purely political ideological goals? An example would be a "Communist" Council Republic with a Command Economy.

Do Trade Union IGs (if led by a Communist leader) join a pro-country Lobby just for that specific nation?
Lobbies, or rather Interest Groups when choosing to form or join lobbies, take matching / opposing ideology and laws into account in their decision making, both in general and in some cases specifically for individual ideologies.
What happens if there are multiple Council Republics that these Trade Union IGs would approve of?
There's an increasing negative weight modifier depending on how many lobbies already exist, to prevent too many lobbies from spawning just because an IG happens to potentially be friends with everyone.
How do Power Blocs fit into this example (Political Union, etc)?
Pending balancing at the moment, but Power Bloc membership should have an impact both for and against particular countries.

This is great, I'm glad the lobby UI would touch up since the SoI reveal!

Is there any hope for us to get nationalist/pan-nationalist lobbies when the inevitable nationalism rework comes along?
When the inevitable nationalism rework comes along, there will certainly be lobbies or something like lobbies filling this niche, yes. :)

Wow, this is amazing!

But what is a "Diplomatic Demand"? Is it a new feature for interactions with foreign countries?
New term for what used to be Diplomatic Plays. Diplomatic Plays are now (since 1.5) always initiated with a Diplomatic Demand, which the target country could potentially agree to if the odds are stacked too high against them, or decline to start a Diplomatic Play.

Will it be possible to fund a lobby that targets a third country?

Could Prussia fund an anti-Austrian lobby in Sardinia-Piedmont?
This would be very cool but also a bit of a UX and AI nightmare, so it's not happening for Sphere of Influence release at least. There's an idea to allow Fund Lobbies to also increase the chance that anti-lobbies for your rivals spawn in that country, but whether that would be a good idea in practice we'll have to see, so no promises.

Like it's surprising to me there's nothing about pro-communist/anti-communist IG alliance.
Such ideological similarities / differences do impact which Interest Groups will form or join specific lobbies, so this is modelled in the system we're releasing with 1.7 already.

My immediate question is whether you can have alignment with countries based on cultural or religious reasons?

Say one played as a theocratic Iran, could one have Shia across the region be more aligned with you via these lobbies? Or at least the Shia ulemma?
Or say Orthodox Slavs in Europe historically wanting alliance with Russia? (I suppose in line with some title of defender of the faith maybe?)

Such factors and considerations would be amazing.
Yes, both religious and cultural compatibility factors are being taken into account.

Sad to see that political lobbies are more country specific, and not directed at government types.

Like as a capitalist nation, I was hoping for there to be a lobby that supports closer relations with other capitalist nations (i.e nations that have Laissez-Faire and Free Trade Economic laws), while favoring hostile attitude towards any communist nation (i.e nations that have Cooperative Ownership Economic law).

Or another example, pro-democracy lobbies in Democratic nations, opposing closer relations with nations that have authoritarian power structures.

I have one question regarding the current implementation of political lobbies. Can there be multiple country specific lobbies within the same country ? Like as a capitalist Germany you have an anti Communist France lobby, and Anti Communist Russia lobby.
What you're describing is more akin to how we're modeling Leverage of Power Blocs as modified by Lobbies. If there's a Laissez-Faire Trade League Bloc in the world, your Industrialists will be keen to form closer relations with the leader of said Bloc, and will use their Clout to improve the Leverage they gain on you. This will make you more likely to be dragged into that Bloc, which will cause friction between you and other Blocs.

There's room to implement more broad "policy" type Lobbies in the future, that aren't aligned towards a specific nation but nations which fit certain criteria, but we want to be careful that Lobbies don't start to overlap with Political Movements as well.

View attachment 1114834
I apologize if this comes across as offensive, but this illustration does indeed bear a very distinct AI-generated style. Compared to some of the earlier illustrations, it seems to have a different texture. I truly hope that you can maintain the oil painting quality in the game's illustrations, ensuring a unified artistic style that is in line with the grand Victorian era. Even if you use AI generation to improve work efficiency, I hope that you can make slight modifications in the later stages to ensure that the texture is consistent with the overall game. Otherwise, If we see more bright and greasy AI generated graphics flooding VIC3 in the future, I think players will feel very sad about it. This will destroy the historical charm of this game. Even the simple line drawings in VIC2 are far superior to these AI images that are filled with a sense of cheapness and plasticity.
The above is entirely based on my personal speculation, and if this image did not actually use AI technology, I apologize.
But it does present a very bad artistic style.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to hear you don't like the art style of this particular illustration. It's not AI-generated.

This is cool. I hope they make sense based on relative strength or else it will be the akin to the Attache situation in HOI4.

Also will it be possible to have more than 1 pro country lobby in a country? (Industrialists + trade unions being pro same country?)
If Industrialists and Trade Unions both support the same country they will be in the same lobby. Though you could also have f.ex. Industrialists and Trade Unions in the pro-French lobby and Trade Unions only in the pro-USA lobby.

That's great but please make sure that this is somehow clear to players. A lot of criticism levied at the game from the player base it's that the systems do stuff in the background and are not clear. This sort of already looks like million threads after release will be complaining about the fact that noone has a clue on how lobbies form...
It's possible to get a breakdown of the factors that attract an Interest Group to a Lobby, but with respect to how Lobbies form, that's a major reason why we developed the concept of Diplomatic Catalysts: to be able to explain to the player what specifically caused this particular Lobby to form. So first there's some sort of catalyst to create the preconditions, which the player is informed about if the lobby is created, and then at least one Interest Group also has to be sufficiently attracted to it based on the aforementioned factors, which are available in a tooltip. So hopefully this will alleviate the issue, compared to e.g. Interest Group leader spawning (which is often considered to be driven by RNG alone when actually it's informed by a huge number of gamestate-informed factors).

How are lobby strengths measured? It just based on the clout of the IG's that support them?
Yes.
Is there a metric that tracks the level of sway a lobby has over IG's?
It's the inverse, the Interest Group lends its Clout to the Lobby's strength, much like Political Movements. So any changes you create to the political strength distribution of pops in your country will also affect the strength of lobbies.
Can we have a Pro and Anti French Lobby as Britain at the same time with different IG's?
Yes. This is exactly how the pro- and anti-overlord lobbies work that spawn in subject countries.

I hope the system is robust enough so that there are not "duplicate lobbies". That's to say, if Britain and Russia are competing somewhere in Central Asia, we should be seeing a pro-British Lobby and pro-Russian Lobby with the assumption that the pro-British one is anti-Russian and vice-versa. Having four lobbies (pro-British, pro-Russian, anti-British, anti-Russian) would kind of destroy the whole point of lobbies.
It's not impossible that a pro-Britain lobby could form alongside an anti-Russia lobby, but it's unlikely due to the balancing for lobby spawn rates we have in place. Since these countries are likely to be rivals with each other the impact from appeasing one lobby would likely have a double effect in this case, which basically just means most of your Interest Groups (maybe different ones) are very firmly aligned in favor of one country and opposing the other. Since lobbies aren't completely symmetrical, we can't say e.g. "don't spawn an anti-Britain lobby if you already have a pro-Russia lobby since they're rivals" because that might harm some dynamics we want to model using this system, like revanchism.

But like I said, such doubling up is unlikely to happen.

Does lobby creation require at least one IG?
If all IG leave a lobby, will the lobby disappear?
Yes and yes.
 
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Is there any way to encourage or coerce IGs to join or leave lobbies? It'd be nice to be able to spend some political goodwill or use authority to avoid having your entire foreign policy dictated by which IGs decided to join which lobbies.

Also, are Political Agitators relevant? Will inviting a German communist fleeing the Kaiser as the Soviet Union make it more likely an anti-German lobby will appear?
 
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Are domestic or neutral lobbies planned to be added in vanilla in future updates, or do you expect this to be a solely mod-oriented feature?
 
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How is it determined what IG joins a given lobby? Is it based on the countries politics/ecconomy? As in, is a Communist country more likely to have foreign Trade Unions support them via a lobby, while a capitalist industrial powerhouse is more appealing to industrialists? Do IG leaders influence it?
 
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Nice. Have you considered Lobbies supporting various independence movements in foreign countries?
 
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A couple of questions here.

How do Lobbies work with ideologies such as Isolationism or Free Trade? Pacifism and Jingoism (as previous poster asked)?

How do Lobbies work with purely political ideological goals? An example would be a "Communist" Council Republic with a Command Economy.

Do Trade Union IGs (if led by a Communist leader) join a pro-country Lobby just for that specific nation?

What happens if there are multiple Council Republics that these Trade Union IGs would approve of?

How do Power Blocs fit into this example (Political Union, etc)?
 
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Very interesting. I hope the AI is able to handle this, though. :)
 
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This is great, I'm glad the lobby UI was touched up since the SoI reveal!

Is there any hope for us to get nationalist/pan-nationalist lobbies when the inevitable nationalism rework comes along?

Edit: typo
 
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Going to echo the few comments above about alternate lobbies. An Isolationist Lobby seems like it's needed (think interwar America) and an Irredentist Lobby for late-game authoritarians and countries that have claims.
 
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Can you fund lobbies in your own country? So if there is a anti-France lobby but longterm you wanna befriend them, can you fund a pro-french lobby in your own country or only a pro-owncountry lobby in France ignore your own lobby squabbles?

Also what happens you puppet a country where you had a anti-country lobby for?
 
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Do lobbies also look to free other countries from their nation's rivals, like wanting to establish an independent Poland from Russia, or free India from British rule?
 
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Probably obvious but can you see other countries' lobbies? Can countries have opposing lobbies, ie. country A has a pro-country lobby for B, and B has an anti-country lobby for A?

And what happens if you have a pro-country lobby and an anti-country lobby against two other countries and one of them becomes a vassal of the other one? I could see the anti-country lobby could disappear if that country was vassalized, or on the opposite situation, an anti-country would get more agitated if the target country vassalizes another country for which you have a lobby to be friends with. This sounds like interactions between lobbies which I'm unsure it's implemented at the moment.
 
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Not gonna lie, reading that Lobbies are tied to Interest Groups deflated a lot of my enthusiasm. I expected another actor entirely that would influence the Interest Groups, not the entire Interest Group influencing the country directly. To me a Capitalist on the border with Mexico has very different Lobby inclination towards it than a Capitalist from Washington.
As it stands, with entire Interest Groups being needed for Lobbies, I guess you'll only have 2 to 3 maximum lobbies. That's not very exciting of a prospect.
Oh well, will have to see it in action to judge.
 
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Why is it a fixed amount of money to fund a lobby? It would be nice so set it manually.

Same thingy with Bankrolling a Country. I would love to reduce or strengthen my influence in a country with money as a leverage.
 
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This looks great!

How similar in power with another country do you need to be to get a lobby targeting them? Could a German minor get an Anti-French lobby? The reverse?

Is Diplomatic Recognition factored in?

Can Lobbies demand that you go to war directly with another country? If so, with which war goals?

Can Lobbies demand specific laws to match/get away from the nation they (dis)like?

When giving money to a lobby, do the pops actually get richer? Or does it just directly increase their clout?
 
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